Scarlet announcements…no cameras till next year.

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New announcements over  at Reduser.net about the updated specs of the Scarlet. Love to get my hands on these. We can expect the 2/3″ versions May-June 2010. Scarlet S35- Summer 2010. Hurry up Summer 2010!!

There are other new announcements. The new 2/3″ mini primes look terrific are priced realistically (although would love a super wide…6mm isn’t super wide in 2/3″ terms). There is a new super duper EVF, but is not cheap. It has it’s own heater apparently.

It’s easy to fall into a negative reaction when all we get is new enhancements to cameras that have been constantly delayed. I want to stay positive and believe these, when they come out, will be worth the wait. It’s just am very impatient and will probably have a 1DmKIV by then, and if they keep delaying maybe even a 5dmKIII!!!

I love all these photos of sexy gear. Have no idea how they will work ergonomically and would LOVE them to publish a photo of someone actually holding one like a camera! Not super interested in the 2/3″ ones to be honest. It’s the S35 ones that I am really excited about.

EDIT: It’s interesting how the comments section has become a debate as to the viability of VDSLRs as tools and how Scarlet will be much better. Of course it will! It just hasn’t come out yet! Tech is a like a religion to some it seems. Me, I just go with the best tool available at the time. Always have, always will.

So will Scarlet kill off the VDSLR revolution. Personally I don’t see it. VDSLRs will just get better and Scarlet is higher end. Why can’t the two co-exist happily?

Do read the very passionate comments below, watch the silly animation below.

Thanks to Jon Connor for this cute video below!

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Nov30th

123 comments

  1. $4750 and I can get a fixed lens scarlet. Great! But why $3200 for an EVF???? Their site is being bombarded right now, running slow…Too bad, I was going to ask why the strange price point for the EVF. Can you answer Phil, or is it they took a page from Steve Weiss????

          1. Either way, plan a great review test for us. I can’t wait to see what you’ll do. By the way, I put your name in my Personal Statement to AFI. Did you ever think you’d inspire a new generation of DP’s? Better yet, do you think people at AFI follow you as well? Crazy huh?

    2. I beleive it’s priced that high because it’s a tiny 1080p LCD in a small heated enclosure, and I think they had to manufacture it themselves because it doesn’t exist anywhere else.

    3. They’re 720p (not 1080p like Andre suggests below) and the image quality is simply stunning. Set one to your eye and you’re actually *monitoring* your picture, not guessing what it will look like.

  2. I gotta say, “too late”. My 5Dm2 kit is already progressing nicely, with all the Canon L and Zeiss ZE prime glass I need. Yes, the Scarlet looks awesome, but it seems to me to fall in a little high on the price point for the various options.

    I’ve tested out my 5Dm2 rig in the most challenging light conditions, and it seems to be passing the test with flying colors, especially when I put it through the appropriate ProRes workflow for post-color. When Scarlet was announced, I was chomping at the bit for it, but now… I’m not so enthused.

    Just my 2-cents…

    1. Except for the 12-minute recording cap…and the harsh jello…and the overheating after using it consecutively for awhile…and the weak autofocus…and AGC…and no 120fps like the Scarlet… 😀

      1. All valid points, but in my own personal experience, only the jello and lack of high fps have been a drawback. I’ve used the 5Dm2 to shoot a feature-length movie and several shorts/other vid projects so far (with stunning results), and it’s never overheated (even shooting in the brutal S. Texas summer heat). I also prefer manual focus over auto, but I guess that’s just a lucky attribute I have; I’ve been a professional stills shooter for a couple decades, and I grew up using MF on everything including moving targets.

        To me the huge sensor of the 5Dm2 alone is worth a ton of points over the Scarlet. Yes, the Scarlet’s feature set is much more “pro”, but I have a feeling that when it’s all said and done, a pro Scarlet setup isn’t going to cost *too* much less than a Red One, especially if one opts for the 35 sensor. :-\ For that reason, I don’t really think of the Scarlet as direct competition with VDSLRs. I put it in a bracket solidly above them, like if one is *almost* ready for a Red One kit.

        1. the fixed scarlet with its 2/3 sensor will be more then enough to film a big budget movie (of course if you had a big budget you would get other cameras) but the point is the final out put on even the fixed will be very professional. many huge films have been shot on 2/3, star wars, 28 days later and many more and they did very well and looked very nice. The fixed scarlet wont come anywhere close to costing as much as the red, it’ll be about the same as 2 5d bodys if it stays on budget (it should stay pretty close to the current projected figures now) also i would say although i to use the 5d/7d for there huge sensors (low lights awesome) the bigger sensors can make it harder to control the (in my opinion) far to shallow dof, great for some jobs but bad for others. anyway point being that they are all very inexpensive tools considering and they all have a good place in film making.

  3. I asked Jarred if he had any comments on release timing- We’ll see if he replies…

    Will Red have mass production Red Scarlet fixed in a reasonable supply to meet demand in June 2010?

    I do agree for the money “today” the $5K package sounds good … My concern is timing, and not being strung along by a manufacturer for another year… be it Red, Canon or Panasonic.

    Hence why I think Scarlet will likely be a late year rental for me while I buy a Canon to get work done all year 2010 …

    1. That sensor size, even smaller than S35, does not provide so shallow depth of field images.

      The difference between 2/3″ and Full Frame sensors (which is even bigger than S35: Canon 5D Mark II and probably upcoming 1Ds Mark IV) related to depth of field is VERY noticeable.

      This Scarlet looks more and more attractive in features, but not “everything” is better than current DSLRs with Full HD capabilities.

      We REALLY like the “futuristic” perspective of RED indeed, but they are somewhat killing themselves with such amount of delays and repeated changes on supposed releasing dates. They are perfectionists, we love that.

      But RED will have to keep a balance between what they can produce today and what they want to offer in the future. If not, everything becomes only like a dream.

      Some of those “futuristic” features were already thought and commented long ago by our team, but of course, manufacturing companies like Canon, Nikon, etc, use to be pretty “conservative”… (sadly indeed). So that’s why we like RED too. But again, this is NOT the solution to everyone’s needs. Lot of 5D2, 7D, 1D4, etc. are more than satisfied with the results they get in many aspects that RED still can’t beat.

      RED Scarlet is a different product aimed to a different segment.

      Some sources told months ago that Canon was interested to compete with RED. If that’s true, then Canon will be less “conservative” and will put MORE FEATURES on upcoming Firmware Updates and new DSLRs.

      — If you are interested on FEATURES being requested to Canon (YOU can also help on requesting them too), please CHECK THIS:

      http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/5d-mark-ii-features-request/

      Cheers.

      1. i would love it if canon could please make there cameras shoot at 3k and 100mbps but at the same price as the 5d 🙂 if you could do that i’ll love all of you for ever and ever 🙂

  6. Specs sound great etc… but I would be concerned about RED mass producing a camera that they could support. I’ve heard too many stories about the problems the RED ONE has had, multiple bodies supplied for high profile shoots etc, it’s one thing to technically support a few thousand who paid thirty grand another to support the amount of units that will be out there for five.

    I’ll do what I usually do… dither and buy the camera the day before it’s obsolete 🙁

  8. Agreed Phil,

    I was kind of hoping for some more concrete details + footage by now – not too keen on the 6 month eta either that is ‘subject to change’…

    a lot can change in 6months.

    should be an interesting 2010 though..!

    surely canon’s video department has something up its sleeve…

  9. I wonder that you all have the patience with this vendor. I think people should turn their backs to a company that announces and promises and breaks that over.
    I think Red would be better off to do what Apple does: Be quiet.
    I think the cams look great but seems these are mostly 3D renders. Where are the real cams, where is footage.
    A hype?

  10. SCARLET is the start of true film like HD and I think a lot of your followers will be kicking themselves when they see whet RED have to offer. I personally predict the death nell for HD SLRs when Scarlet becomes readily available.
    Though we still don’t know how it is going to be in low light so their may be some milage for the HD SLR yet.

    1. Phil, you have never liked Video DSLRs! Why? I don’t think anyone will be kicking themselves. I have said it once and I will say it a thousand times. Don’t wait for something that isn’t out yet that only has an estimated release date. If you need something, can use something, can make money from something that actually exists then get that now. This applies not just to cameras.

      I am pretty certain both can co-exist very happily. Don’t forget the 7D body only costs just $1700. That’s pretty bloody cheap!

      1. I don’t like afterthoughts and the HD SLR in my opinion was an afterthought by Canon etc. who designed the DSLR with video to suit the needs of Fleet Street and their web content. That’s why we have not seen anyone delivering a DSLR that is fit for purpose and you are all having to record sound externally. You and a growing number of pros have embraced the HD SLR and made it work for you but as you will agree the DSLR does not have the same functionality as a video camcorder.

        1. Who cares if it started as an afterthought. They opened up a door with their “afterthought” which has changed the market forever. The tech is just a year old and is getting better and getting better fast. That’s right…one year old. Show me something else you can buy now and make money off of now, that can do what these VDSLRs can do! Have always gone on about limitations and so we work around them. Every camera I have ever used has a limitation. There will never be a perfect camera as someone will always find something to pick at!

          I shot a short drama at weekend using the 7D and the results are awesome. I was able to work fast, use available light and continue shooting when sun went down. That camera made the film possible and that camera, like the 5dmkII has opened the door of high quality video to many people who without them would not have walked through. This is a good thing.

          Why would you prefer for them to be killed off than evolve and improve, as they will? Makes no sense to me…let us enjoy the ride and see where it takes us! Try and be a little bit more positive Phil, can’t remember the last time you posted something positive about things!!

          1. As a 100% embracer of both the 5D2 and 7D for filming and making money, you can do nothing but always put a positive spin on these cameras, that makes you biast.

            The low light capabilities are a big plus for these cameras as is the wider availability to students to get hold of, but someone and that someone is me, has to have a more neutral spin on these cameras…sometimes my neutrality comes over as negative but if Canon, Nikon only see the positive they will keep making glaring mistakes.

            1. that’s nonsense. I am not biased. You think because I sell two dvds and love the VDSLRs am blinkered to their flaws? I think many many people will disagree with you there. I am very vocal about the flaws.

              Perhaps you need to re-read my post. I don’t care who makes it. All I care is the best tool for the right job. Let’s have this conversation when people actually have the Scarlet in their hands. I have my eyes on two models myself.

              It’s not neutrality Phil in your posts, it’s negativity. Would you like me to forward all your posts and see just how negative they are?

              I make money from my VDSLRS as do hundreds of others. Doesn’t mean we are closed to the next best thing. Have been accused of being biased for the past three years for all sorts of different products and manufacturers. All of it utter nonsense. Nikon bring out a Canon beating VDSLR, am there. Sony bring out a killer video camera then I am there. Scarlet comes out and it’s as awesome as it seems then am there.

        2. What film maker records sound internally? You only limit yourself with internal sound recording.

          The Scarlet looks great and I’m sure it will be a fine camera but give Canon two years and who knows what they will have out and at what price. By early next year they will already have 3 cameras out that are usable. It can only get better from here on in. As an armature film maker VDSLR’s are what I have always wanted. Not perfect but close enough for what I need and at the price range that is right for me. I can’t afford a Scarlet and plus the new computer to edit the footage.

          1. Here’s another plus: Let’s not forget also that Canon has GOBS of liquid cash they can throw into any given project without even blinking. All they have to do is come up with a good idea and it’s on the market in no time.

            I remember back in the mid nineties, working football games for the Associated Press, when shooters started using those gigantic Nikon-based Kodak ditcams that cost 17K, had more noise than an AC/DC show, and didn’t even crank out 1MP. Then one day Canon decided they wanted to start making ditcams, and everyone giggled, and then BAM! Domination. Every year, more and more black lenses on the sidelines changed to white ones; Nikon is only just now recovering from the beating that Canon laid down on them back then.

            All Canon has to do is decide that *really* entering the pro-am cine market is a good idea, and then…

  12. OK.

    Darren: I wouldn’t compare this to 5DmkII at ALL. Two different worlds. And the price is amazing in my eyes..

    I can’t wait to get both the 2/3 interchangeable and the S35 of Scarlet.. Hopefully I can fit the old 8.5×5.5mm wide betacam lens on the scarlet 2/3 and have a lot of fun shooting sports and stuff in 150 fps!

  13. scarlet has a far better codec …
    if you shoot for public broadcasters in germany (or for bbc, discovery etc.) i think h264 (7d/5d) is not accepted.
    scarlets codec will be no problem …
    or am i missing something?
    why is nobody talking about this aspect?
    dslrs are nice for indy-films and the web … but for tv???

    i posted this already on a different blog, but it perfectly fits here:

    “is 7d-stuff good enough for broadcasting?
    what about bitrates, colorspace, codec?
    officially (in germany) you need at least 50mbit/s and 4:2:2 …
    they won’t check every time but isn’t it too risky to deliver films shot with the 7d? – no matter how “good” they look on the first view?
    are the limitation visible or is it just figures and “theory”?
    how good does the material look when it is broadcastet?
    the quality you see on your nle is not relevant …”

    1. VDSLRs are being used successfully for TV, and HD broadcast. Yes they are far from perfect and yes the codec of the Scarlet is going to be infinitely superior. but for now we go with what we have and make the best of them…

    2. Oh please dontt talk about quality in TV Broadcaster. Talk about the compression used to go on Satellite. I’ve see programs produced for Sky with MiniDV Canon XL1!!! Please talk about the Budget and the relative team we can have, so if I have 10.000 euro for a spot I don’t think I’ll produce it with a REDcam even if a I’d have 100.0000 maybe I’ll use a REDcam. In Italy the rent of a REDcam every day cost from 1.000,00 to 1.500,00 euro. Also REDcam it isn’t the perferct camera (if you want produce at 50P you must reduce the resolution from 4K to 2K obtaining a magnification of 2X of your lenses so a 50mm become a 100mm). VDSLR are great tools to produce work with limited budget. If the next Vdslr will have the HDmi out lossless they’ll become a great tools also for bigger productions with great budget. P.S. I dont think there are lot of tv that accept REDcam codec.

  15. I’ll be purchasing a video camera in the next few months. The Sony EX3 is the type of camera I’m looking at and at a good price point for me. I plan to use this camera in a corporate environment and for short films, so I’ve ruled out rigging all kinds of functionality to a DSLR.

    I read the RED announcement and love what it is capable of, but I think there are too many factors.

    Time is an issue for me. (May/June) — I’ve heard of crazy-arse waiting lists on top of that aswell, whether it’s true, I don’t know..
    Functionality/Cost. — How much do I really have to spend to get a RED camera with the functionality of something like the EX3?
    Specs — The specs are out of this world. But they are broadly stated. I need more detail if they are stating new technology.
    .
    I think the RED Scarlet will be great camera (industry changer), but it’s still just hype.

    Just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on this and whether you still think the EX3 will remain at the forefront (in it’s class) for a while longer?

  16. I don’t understand how the Scarlet is killing anything off. It still doesn’t exists, and you a probably looking at about another year before you actually can get your hands on one.
    Yes the quality will kick ass, but think of all the stuff you can shoot in a year with a 5D/7D and for a lot less money. As always with film gear, one thing is the camera but you’ll need lots of other gadgets to actually use it.
    And even if you you did get a Scarlet after having brought a 5D/7D you will still have a fantastic stills camera!

  17. well what is essential here … chip size, codec and lenses … i guess

    scarlet:

    – chip size is not as good as 7D / 5D ( but better then EX1/EX3/HVX…)

    – codec is devastating (RAW … and RED footage looks stunning!!!)

    – lenses … i might think 7D/5D has more & better options
    (fixed lens on a XH-A1 is better i think 😉

    handling: both are not made for shoulder use (like hpx300) or handheld use (like HVX201) without accessories (i guess)

    ok there are a buch of other things like audio, monitoring … well it is hard to say what’s the best choice

  18. So far, another announcement… nothing else. Possibly become a reality, but “when” is uncertain…

    We really like what RED has been planning and trying to achieve (still didn’t though), and probably it will be a great piece of equipment.

    But they are very different to DSLRs in LOT of things: technical aspects -not as shallow depth of field as Full Frame DSLRs, low noise capabilities, etc. (of course, this RED “will” have more features for filming too, but NOT “everything” is better than all DSLRs)

    Many other aspects are different too, like lenses and accesories compatibility, versatility, ease of use, price/performance ratio (depending on your needs) and WORLDWIDE availability & service, which RED can NOT compare to Canon, Nikon, etc.

    There are thousands of people using DSLRs for both pro stills and pro filmmaking tasks. This RED model will be another option, but will NOT “kill” the DSLR market at all. That’s a completely out of reality perspective (by few people).

    RED and DSLRs cameras can “live” together because they are aimed to different segments. And that’s GREAT, because there are more options for customers not only in USA, UK or few more countries, but all AROUND the world (which indeed DSLR market is astronomically bigger than RED’s)

    The best proof of what DSLRs are able to achieve on Full HD are out there, at the reach of everyone.

    Cheers.

    1. 5D team,

      Please make a vdslr that can shoot 2k video.
      I have been waiting for the scarlet as I am shooting my first feature in feb.
      I didn’t want to upres to get to film using 1080 with a vdslr.
      Just saw a real my dp shot using the 5d’s and it was awesome!

      If you can increase the video resolution to a 35mm film frame it would help a lot and help bury the competition.

      My humble opinion.

  19. My take is that the Red Scarlet, with its huge bevy of accessories and add-ons, will end up costing upwards of $15K when all the needed bells and whistles are added. This is still better than the cost of a normal Red, but still – out of reach for the vast majority of videographers. For 6-7K you could have a completely tricked-out 5D or 7D with a Zacuto rig, a couple of great lenses, and everything needed to shoot video that looks outstanding. Does it look as good as the Scarlet? Good question, and the answer for at least another year is YES – since the Scarlet is vaporware. Even when compared to the Scarlet I think DSLRs are going to come out on top given the price. If you are hell-bent on getting Red quality, (which the Scarlet won’t really be anyway) shoot with a Red. But, for the prosumer market, the cost of entry is just too high given all you have to buy to make it sing.

    1. the scarlet wont be to far off red (of course as you say its vapour so this is all guess work) but apparently it was said that the scarlet output will be compared to the f23 which is a stunning cam (i think its about £150,000 but i’ll be happy to be corrected on that)

  20. RED is innovative. Their business model reminds me of another small company whom every year gets more and more market share against it’s competitor. It is something that was not acquired quickly so the foundation(Users, followers, customers, etc) is stronger. This company is Apple. RED’s introduction of the Scarlet and Epic programs are great. Their announcement has appeased everyone from the indy film guy wanting to test the water to veteran industry professionals with a future-proof design that can always be updated and or enhanced. Modularity in its product design is key and with it has ensured RED as a bold competitor in the race for this new market.

    This is still a competition. There is always someone waiting in the wind to see how new products are received. Based on the demand new products are created. HDSLRs are not going anywhere! The big-heads recognize that and will only improve on the features they provided within the past year. Another example of David vs Goliath is the XBox 360 vs. the PS3!

    We live in an interesting time!

    1. First of all, I apologize for my english if it’s not that good.

      Man, excuse me, but RED is innovative? Or is it Canon that finally brought Fullframe digital recording to everyone? In past I’ve been dreaming of buying a RED, but what I say now is: You’ve (You RED obviously) have pulled the rope until the end. You’ve insisted in making 35k $ cameras, and now someone else is a real competitor and sells a comparable gear at 5k $, NOW you come with a 5k $ camera? That’s just too bad, I’m not going to give you my money anymore, if I have to give my money away I’ll give it to someone who has breaked down the “trust” of video producers, and altough 5D and 7D have their issues, well, I’ll stick with it.

      I don’t know what kind of indy filmmakers are those who con afford a RED, for myself, and for lots of filmakers I know, it’s a pain in the.. well, you know where, just to save for the 5D.

      Maybe, you’re right, they are really innovation, after all, there’s no big deal in what canon did, nothing completly new, but still, I prefer it.

      However, this are just my 2 cents, and I don’t want to offend anyone.

      Goodbye.

      1. canon did do something awesome, i love them and there products, but why does that mean that red can’t be great to, im confused as to when several different products stopped being able to co-exist? Lets all open one big bank account together, start up a production company, pool all of our equiptment, make great movies together and live happily ever after the end :). Plus i dont have as much gear as philip so it’ll work out better for me that way 🙂

  21. One of the reasons I bought a 7D its precisely because I have been waiting for the Scarlet for almost 15 months and nada. I do have experienced the RED ONE and yes it was fantastic, BUT for motion pictures and national spots, I dont do that yet. Also it was a 30K camera!

    I have a good friend who runs a prod co. with two REDs and it was asking me to wait for the scarlet (since the very first design) and now we have used the 7D with fantastic results.(for him)

    Also if you read the postings on RED user NET, you will see that the scarlet has been scrambling to match what the DSLR’s have done, hence the continuous design changes.

    In all, IF it comes out, they know it will be a tough market to conquer, Canon will improve our cameras via software and that market segment already IS acquiring 5D’s, 7D’s and the upcoming 1D’s.

    On the other hand, if you have lots of mula then why worried? Get one when it comes out.

    My two devalued US cents

    1. I think you’re right. We were thinking about a Scarlet but decided to go with a Lumix which has worked very well and will be adding a few 7D’s shortly.

      I think the explosion of the VDSLR market has really forced RED to adjust.

  23. The moment I saw a footage, a mini-film, something done with that thing called Scarlet (It’s just a render by now and a list of possible features) I will start to argue about.

  24. One day it will all be perfect 35mm full frame RAW footage available to anyone and everyone, before you know it people will start going back to Super 8mm and watch in wonderment at the stylistic old school method. Then people will be trying to get hold of those for “the look” and so on and so forth…

    I own the 7D and think it’s fantastic. I went crazy and bought some AI-S Nikon primes as well as some Canon W/A zoom lenses and the 70-200mm Sigma.

    Serves my purposes and looks great. Yes I love my gadgets and will want whatever the next big thing is myself, but shoot on old DV if you have to. Get out there and have fun with anything you can get your hands on. Waiting for the next ‘Red’ didn’t stop Spielberg or Orson Welles!!!

  25. I agree with what others have said. The 7d is real and in my hands right now, and costs a fraction of what a fixed lens Scarlet would cost. Of course that’s a 2/3″ scarlet which doesn’t produce bokake (yeah, yeah) that I want.

    The problem I see is that Canon shot too low and Red is shooting too high. Touch Focus? Internet Log sending? (and on the other side) No audio monitoring? H264? Red could have come out with a 7d that captures Raw and people would be knocking down their door. I know Red is very much about quality and image, but I wonder if they overshot what the market was asking for.

    Oh well. Canon has my money right now, and I’m making movies. That’s a Good Thing. ™

  26. Sorry, but we have two 5dMkii’s and two 7D’s in our hands right now and are using them with STUNNING results. The only thing Red seems to have done the past year is release countless new renders of their fictitious gear.

    If/when released, the price point will be WELL BEYOND what we could afford. (Sorry, but an ergonomically/technically useable fixed lens scarlet with specs that make it worth buying over a 1DMkiv or 5D/7D will cost well over 10,000…which at that point, makes it a non-option for us.)

    On top of that, the 2/3″ sensor won’t be able to touch the bokeh of the full frame 5D or even the 1.6x crop 7D. We do alot of documentary work and need a ton of play in the DOF area to be able to always create the “feeling” of the moment.

    My take…the scarlet will be released and do well, but it will be unsuited for the MAJORITY of the filmmaking market. The pros of codec and such can’t justify the costs if the product we’re producing right now is not lacking, and is achieved at a FRACTION of the cost.

    The scarlet is as much of a “vDSLR killer” as Red One was an “HDcam + 35mm adapter killer”. Sure, most filmmakers and videographers would have loved to shoot with a Red One, but the quality you could get from a solid HDCAM with adapter and some beautiful 35mm lenses was already beyond what the market needed, and again at a fraction of the costs.

  28. VDSLRS have their limitations but so do the Scarlets!

    With the Mark II and a Z-FINDER you can walk around in almost any lighting situation and get great footage. NOCTURNE was shot at 6400 ISO and still looked great. THIS makes the the VDSLR even cheaper because you do not have to spend a lot of money lighting a set. Bloom has shot in candle light.
    For people who say its no good for broadcast look at the GREENPEACE spot. or SNL!

    the 5 star videos on Cinema5d ESPECIALLY the SALT FLATS commercial is incredible (what do people think of the salt flats spot?)
    http://www.cinema5d.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1200

    How much is a full frame RED going to cost? not many people will be able to afford that.

    Footage of the REDONE which has a bigger sensor than the Scarlet does not look great if its not lit properly.

    I think the world needs both. its so easy and fun to shoot on the 7 and 5d, the scarlet may be overkill on some stuff.

  29. I’ll buy scarlet for one thing only. As a special FX camera for Indie filmmaker. . Raw codec for blues screen /green screen. Perfect for 3d tracking too, For project that require deliverer in 1080p or 2k.

  30. It all looks great, can’t wait to finally see them in the field… I’m sure there will be another delay or two. Hopefully this will force Canon to step up their game, competition is great.

    Philip there was a picture of someone holding a pre-production scarlet, it was a few generations ago but it could give you an idea of the ergonomics. I was quite skeptical before, considering it just looks like a cube of camera. Here check it out. http://prototypen.com/blog/falk/pics/DSMC.jpg

  31. Canon is patiently waiting. They will release their Frankenstein creation – the “real” merger of their DSLR and Video line using their interchangeable lens lineup. Scarlet will stand a chance.

    Take a look at what Magic Lantern is doing with the 5D Mark II. Off the charts!

  32. It’s a vaporware world… Like http://www.ikonoskop.com/dii/ , taking pre-orders and money from people, and then start to postpone the release. Although i trust Red a lot more than Ikonoskop and others, i fully agree with Phil’s remark: Don’t wait for something that isn’t out yet.
    Rest assured that the Scarlet will get it’s equal share of camera-bashing once it’s released.
    M.

  33. Scarlet?? What Scarlet? Just got a 7D – can make good films NOW!!! No point waiting for a ‘Tomorrow never comes’ camera. 2010? 2011? 2012??? Canon will have a 120fps VDSLR by then!!

  34. Philip,

    What I want to know is, what was that comment about the 5D Mark III? Do you have information about one, and if so, what would it have? For me, I’d just be happy with the darn firmware update to the 5D Mark II!

  35. “Will Scarlet kill off the VDSLR?”

    I don’t think so. There is plenty of room for both. I’m glad to see the Scarlet development proceeding. Exciting times for filmmakers. So many good tools available – even now – to tell wonderful stores beautifully. Scarlet will only up the ante in a positive way.

  36. There are different levels of skill and experience ( and financial stability ) and a camera to fit everyone from the big boys to the $100 Flips. This will just be another tool available for those doing this professionally. I can’t see the casual hobbyist or the person just starting out going and dropping the cash on something so hyped.

    There will be bugs at first and RED will need to work out some issues but in the end it’s going to be a great piece of gear and yet another tool available for film makers.

    The isn’t going to be the death of the VDSLR because that market is just in it’s infancy and can go nowhere but up. Plus that hybrid gear is a big market for creative people and people looking to make the jump from stills to video. While not as “revolutionary as the REd line, VDLSR are a game changer, they are driving costs down and quality up on gear across the board. With new gear out every few months they’ll keep pushing the rest of the industry forward.

  38. VDSLRs are the future, no question. The Scarlet looks cool, I grant you, but it’s very much a speciality product that will sell in small numbers.

    As for the “film look” I’m fed up to my eye teeth with hearing this much misused and nonsensical term; lighting, production style, post production are all far greater influences over the look of a shot than the inherent qualities of a single piece of equipment, and anyone who thinks otherwise is verging on being a little dim.

    For the vast majority of professionals and amateur’s alike, VDSLRs are going to be an ubiquitous tool that can be used for almost any situation to record high fidelity video (feel free to call it HD) with the benefits of an interchangeable lens system and a quality stills camera. If production companies are already making commercial video with them, you can be sure this is a sign of not only their competence but also how things will filter down to the mainstream.

    So, technique and post are the areas where HD footage (do we still call it that?) will be transformed to give an accurate impression of 35mm film, should this be required.

    And 2010 is the year I’m moving from small sensor cams to large(ish) sensor VDSLRs without the need to buy both still and video cameras. It’s a step forward, don’t believe otherwise.

  39. Sorry Phil Johnston, you’re claiming Mr. Bloom to be “biast” as you put it (which I assume must be attributed to an extreme case of one being “biased”), but I must say that your opinion doesn’t seem to be coming across as the “reasonable and impartial” voice so far…

    Anyone who essentially starts their post with “AN UNRELEASED, UNTESTED, UNVERIFIED, UNDOCUMENTED CAMERA THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING OTHER THAN A RENDERING OF, AND HAVE STILL TO SEE ANY FOOTAGE FROM OR HOLD IN MY OWN HANDS is the start of true film like HD…” is obviously someone who only cares to be right, and doesn’t care to actually give a true judgement. Philip Bloom continues to test, analyze and occasionally endorse countless tools and methods for creating your artistic products that he finds to be quality or helpful, without any loyalty to a specific format, company, or style. You on the other hand have made up your mind on what a camera in one year from now will do to cameras that were released this year. Any idea what Canon and Nikon will be doing with their DSLRs when this Scarlet is released? Hopefully not too much more, because whatever they add to theirs will inevitably cause Red to completely redesign their scarlet to match the market again.

    Either way, I hope you enjoy you’re start of true film-like HD in one year……maybe 🙂

    1. Please, do we have to be cheerleaders? Bloom is a big guy, he can take care of himself. Not to mention that you’re assuming all kinds of things about Johnston without, presumably, knowing the guy.

  40. It looks like a great bit of kit.
    With regards to killing off the VDSLR that is silly troll talk.
    As with everything different equipment will suit different needs.
    A 7D or 5DMKII or GH1 or whatever will appeal more to people shooting stills and video lots of people will already own canon lenses etc.
    The VDSLR is still a cheaper option that can be built up over time.
    Both options are valid, if you want to use a VDSLR, great. If you buy a scarlet that’s great too. Both are valid and both will work.
    More choice is better for everyone and hopefully it will push development of the VDSLR further.

  41. Yowser! Argument City! I’ve been following the Starlet’s (and let’s not forget Epic) progress for a while now and I don’t think HDSLR movie wunderkinds have any reason to worry about it. Way too much emphasis has been put on the Scarlet relative chops as a stills camera as though its aimed directly at that market.

    As Phillip points out its a completely different kettle of fish. The DSLR possibilities of the Scarlet have mainly served as a way of marketing one of the most important things about the new line of Reds, and that’s their complete modularity. The fact that a camera that is one day used for an independent film could then be re-rigged and taken on a plane as full frame DSLR then the next day rigged as a stereoscopic 3D Cinema camera shows how despite their delays (which they are always pretty honest and upfront about – something no other company would be seen dead doing) Red are challenging the way that filmmakers do business forever.

    In that way (adding ‘game changing’ versatility to an institutionalised industry) and that way only should you measure an HDSLR against a Scarlet. Personally I love playing and getting to know absolutely any piece of new or innovative kit and would never dismiss something new just because I bought something else. Brand or even worse format loyalty is suicidal in this industry!

    Big-up Phil Bloom wiseman of all things camera.

  42. For the price, the 7D has opened up so many possibilities, particularly for the amateur film maker. Everyone seems to want a Red, yet these dslrs are here at a reasonable price and offer good image quality, interchangeable lenses, solid state media recording etc. Even chroma keys are easy to pull with less than ideal lighting etc. There’s always something that is technically better, but if what’s in front of the lens is compelling, then the flaws of this technology shouldn’t be a distraction.

  43. The announcement yesterday was disappointing. Scarlet is still “planning” for a Q2/Q3 2010 release and I would be willing to bet that no one will really get their hands on one until late 2010/early 2011.

    I think RED’s goals are admirable, but they should revisit their strategy of pre-announcing their stuff until they are close enough to releasing it. Scarlet was talked about two years ago and announced officially at NAB08 with the goal of a working prototype by NAB09. Since then, not only has Scarlet changed dramatically but they keep releasing new products (actually renders of new products) which only makes it look like they have way too many projects going on. RedRay, RedRocket, RedRay Pro, RedStation, Viewfinders, Matte Boxes – it’s kind of tiring.

    When Scarlet comes out it will definitely be awesome, but now that I have a 7d, I don’t think I will be able to go for the 2/3″ which means I am looking at about $10-15k to get myself a working S35. Ouch.

    As for Scarlet killing vDSLR’s (or visa versa), that is just crazy talk. There is enough room in this world for a multitude of creative tools. I think that zero-sum mentality is an unfortunate result of the idiot 90’s monopolistic business strategies. There doesn’t need to be any “killing off” – it is possible for more than one company to have a successful product.

  44. lol you seem to have kicked up a crap storm philip. i’ll put in my moneys worth here (i only flicked through the posts so im sry if i miss quote). Firstly i have always known philip to be pretty open to all tech and therefore the opinion of said items is usually pretty bang on (your’ll never agree with someones opinions all the time). The evf is expensive because of what it takes to make it (if it stays on spec target it will be very nice, its not a crappy diy toy), these things are hard to make and red aren’t in the habit of making things super expensive if they can help it. They proved that by making a hollywood grade camera for sub 20 grand and im sure they will prove it again by bringing in the 2/3 at a stupid price point, (try getting anything even close at that price). As for the 7d/5d they are completly different items and in there own right incredibly good and make lovely PROFESSIONAL images. Why do people have to always say “this is better then that” its ridiculous. i recently finished a feature film that used the red, 7d and a hf100 all along side each other, we used them all for there strengths and they all did a great job, it was good enough for those big investers so they are all professional tools as far as im concerned. come on guys all these cameras can get along with each other why can’t we 🙂

      1. Sorry to go off topic, but since someone mentioned your website, I’d just like to make a quick suggestion. Can you also get your web guy to edit your templates so the comments are ordered in the reverse order to what they are at the moment. Having the most recent comment at the bottom of the thread makes it easier to follow all the comment left. At the moment it just seems rather awkward to have to scroll to the the bottom of the page to read the 1st comment. I just think the change would make it a lot easier to follow ‘hotly’ discussed post like this one.

        Love the game, I think certain forum commenters should be required to relieve stress before leaving troll-like comments 😉

        1. …Sorry to bring this up here, but I also noticed while trying to follow the comments to this post and others that depending on your time zone also effects how the comments are ordered. Time stamp of each comment is the local time of the country the the commenter is in. This is messing up how comments appear as you have commenters in multiple time zones leaving comments minutes apart but appear to be hours apart because the time stamp associated with each comment is using a local time. e.g. 18:00 in London, but a commenter in NY leaves a comment 2 minutes later and the time stamp appears 13:00. The problem is that the NY comment then appears to be left before the comment left in London.

          I mention this because it makes it quite difficult to follow comments when they are not ordered in some order. I’m learning a lot reading comments on your blog.

          regards,

  48. yeah i heard those *cough cough* have bugs in them! 😉

    ———————————–

    they have plenty of those alright 🙂 dam things. Now im off to kick some ass on final knockout woo hoo 🙂

  50. The new Scarlet specs look great, I still want one when it’s available for the frame rates and RAW codec. I see it more as an EX1/3 killer than a DSLR killer. Different price points, different markets, different needs.

    The original Scarlet specs looked great to me too – but I’m really glad I didn’t wait to get the 5D. In the past year I’ve shot 6 short films with it as well as a couple dozen short corporate pieces – i.e. it’s already more than paid for itself. Even if Scarlet ships as predicted I’ll have another 3-4 films done with the 5D before then. Just guessing that end of next year is a more realistic ship date though, so honestly at this point the question isn’t whether Scarlet will replace my 5D, it’s whether the 1D will replace my 5D – as I can be pretty confident I’ll get a good solid year’s worth of use out of it before Scarlet is even a consideration.

  51. Ahh… The Red such a polarizing device. Loved or hated everyone has a take on it. I have been living in Los Angeles my whole life and working here as a camera jockey since 1994 and never have I seen one camera system cause such a stir. I will say this with the budgets shrinking down close to nothing the camera that will deliver the most bang for the buck will be the one working the most. Last year it was all red all the time. This year the tides are shifting to 5D and 7D. Next year who knows??? Whatever it is I’m sure we will all be ranting or raving about.

  52. Your work with the vdslr speaks for itself. The price point of the vdslrs is much less than the Red stuff. Things may change once Red actually comes out with the Dream cameras but till then I’m seriously considering selling my EX3 for a 7D. Then use some of the compatible parts I’d use with the 7D and move over to say a s35(or a 2/3 Scarlet). Now if Canon or one of the other dslr manufacturers came out with a vdslr that had at least an uncompressed hdmi out signal I would consider a covergent design nanoflash(i know they are expensive but so are good 35mm adapters on say an EX3 with a relay lens to max out camera-I’ve never bought into the 35mm adapters because of all the light loss-vdslr doesn’t have that problem). Better would be a comparable Raw Codec like Reds from Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, etc. Then things could get really interesting. Overall it’s just a relief to know nothing will be coming out for what seems like forever from RED. The Oct. 30th announcement was awful if your interested in Scarlet-Nov 30(much more hopeful). If you already own a RED One then I’m sure I’d be happily waiting till they release their new cameras in say 2012 just in time for it all to end. 😉

  53. will argue as soon as I’ve seen the Scarlet work (and of course if there’s some footage to watch uncompressed)

    heard something like Apple=RED
    Just want to say, I had this thought too, but the fact is: Apple works on products and hide them until they’re ready to show.

    Big announcement incl. showing it’s features and of course a realistic release date

    A fixed date so that people can ‘plan’ their purchase
    ‘I’m fine with what I got right now, but I won’t purchase in May cause product XYZ will be released in June”

    RED didn’t act like that, that’s their problem!

    Instead of finally showing real pictures (a Scarlet on a tripod) or some test vids, they showed some new features, 3D renders and a vague release date

    Most informations on a 2/3″ Scarlet which everyone hoped it would be dropped to focus on a fullframe Scarlet.

    And a prize increase…

    well, at least I will have fun with my 5Dmk2 and my EX1-Letus cameras (and of course earn money with them) until Phil gets his hands on a Scarlet. Will watch what’s possible with this camera and if it IS better than everything ever released to this date, I will shoot some more stuff to propably purchase it 😉

    2. thats just how red are, personally i like that they let you know whats happening the whole way through, i like the fact that you can actually talk to the owners of the company direct instead of a customer support person that doesnt care about the product. they are what they are and some people love the way they work others dont, they are doing something very new and very bold by bringing us the products they do at the price they do and i think its exciting to be a part of it the whole way through, testing products, giving feed back that is listened to, we are all part of the team and its a nice way to work (i.e actualy listening to the customers). love them or hate them they are very good at what they do and there’ll be here a long while :). also just to finish i think your’ll find very few wanted the 2/3 dumped so they could focus on the other scarlets, it seems to be a fairly even mix of demand for both products.

  55. Doubt it. It’s like the console world, Xbox 360 came out a few years ago then came PS3, there will always be something better on the horizon, I think these things are like the nintendo Wii you have to buy all these parts to get the full experience if you really want the full quality. VDSLR, will see what the scarlet and come out with something better in a year or almost the same quality…I love competition it always brings the best out for us consumers.

  56. I’m late to the game on this one. My two cents. Of course Scarlet will be better than a VDSLR, it’s purpose built with video in mind. However, it WON’T be better at stills. It’s funky egonomically (as is VDSLR for video), and it costs WAAAY more (2X to 3X) then most VDSLRs. So those of us who don’t have $5K+ lying around, VDSLRs are the future, until someone picks up the ball that Red dropped, and gives us a (complete) camera in the $3K range. And no, I don’t expect a ‘super’ camera for that price. If it uses APS-C sensor, shoots up to 60fps, has decent on-board sound, and gives me good quality HD footage that is enough!

  58. No… Simply put… It all comes down to price. There will always be a market for affordable tools. How many times have we seen consumer market technologies ooze their way into professional tools. A tool is a tool.

    However, there are guys that purchase Black & Decker drills and are completely happy. But… ever since I got my Hilti drill I don’t think I could ever go back. Personal preference and how well the tool fills the need (or sometimes, the want).

  59. DSLR video and RED video are in totally separate markets. It’s comparing apples to bananas. RED will own the digital cinema market with Epic/Scarlet, and DSLRs will give an amazing picture to small production houses, low-budget indies and semi-pros.

    You just can’t make your DSLR turn out a picture good enough for a serious feature film, and most soccer moms (despite what Jim said in the early Scarlet press) won’t shell out $4-5k for a RED camera; they’re going to get DSLRs. RED cameras are too bulky for some types of work, and DSLRs need a lot of compensation before they look like a cinema camera (like Scott Bourne’s $13k rig for his $1700 7D).

    Different markets, different price points. Canon has some features that RED had better match or top, and RED has a lot going for it to justify its higher (but still amazingly cheap) price.

    My 2 cents.

  60. Let me start off by saying that this is my first time engaging in any discussion on this site. I am rarely one to get caught up in stuff like this but I was compelled to make a comment after reading the above.

    I have been working in the industry for quite a few years now and have shot on everything from celluloid, popular prosumer cameras, high end HD and most recently the Red One. I am not one for brand loyalty and usually pick the appropriate tool for the job. It bothers me that people get so upset when new technology like the VDSLR comes out and creates forward progress with video tecnology. All it will do is foster new and better things in the future along with smaller price points. Its not a threat to your current camera of choice or your man hood don’t worry.

    Some embrace these cameras as an effective tool to get the job done and some just cant stop comparing it to other cameras or picking it apart. Then when pro’s like Phil, Ron Charters and Shane Hurlbut find these tools useful and are willing to share their work with the masses they are criticized. I don’t know many industry working pro’s that would spend the time to do this.

    Its a tool, use it until a better tool comes out. I have been waiting for the Scarlet for a year now. I purchased a VDLSR 2 weeks ago and its payed for itself 3 times over already. Sure they have their flaws and quirks. Show me a camera system that doesn’t and I’ll cash in my retirement.

    Anyone who is making money with these cameras raise your hand.

    Regards,

    Mike

    1. I totally agree Mike, really well put. I hardly know any professionals who are as open and as helpful as Philip and I will add that he has helped me a great deal over the last year.
      For me, and like you said above, picking the appropriate tool for the job is how I work. At the moment I use the 5DMKII for my work, as the jobs I mostly do are web based promo videos, and the 5D is perfect for that. When it comes to a more filmic job I love using my Canon XL2 with letus adaptor and the clients like the results.

      I feel the arguments people raise and the criticism they give about “this camera is better than that camera” and “the people who use them dont know what they are talking about” will never stop, but most importantly it will never influence my choice on what camera is best for the job.

      There are flaws in every camera but i feel that it is these flaws that make you a better camera operator/director as you successfully get around the problems and and achieve the shots you were aiming for.

      thanks
      Gar

  61. VDSLRs are fine. Different cameras, different classes, different prices. VDSLRs are not killing off proper video cameras, Reds are not killing off VDSLRs OR proper DSLRs.

    Right tool for the right job for the right person. Anyone that says differently is a fanboi.

  64. I am a Red & 5D Mk II owner and I have said it many times- “Red needs to concentrate it’s limited boutique resources and stick to what they know- Highend Digital Cinema Cameras!!! Chasing down Canon’s R&D at this point may prove to be daunting!!!

  65. I’ll offer up the point of view of an amateur enthusiast.

    It was only a couple of years ago that I started to get quite serious about stills photography. As I quickly learnt the benefits of bigger sensors, wider apertures, interchangeable lenses and full manual control, I equally learnt why the footage from my DV Camera was so poor. Realising that the SLR in front of me had most of the technology required to create amazing footage was both exciting and frustrating.

    To see this new world of VDSLR’s open up before my eyes has been amazing. I read all the forums, watch all the samples and follow all the tweets. But I’m not a pro. I’m actually a musician. So I’m never going to spend $5K on a 2/3″ Fixed Red. But that’s ok. I can justify less than $2K on a 7D with which I can use all the nice lenses I already own, I get a Super 35 sized sensor and I get a VERY nice upgrade to my stills camera collection. I’ve seen some very filmic footage come from it (along with the very unfilmic) so I’m more than happy to fork out the small amount of cash that i can actually afford.

    But would I love a S35 scarlet? Damn straight I would, but by the time I combine the brain and the mount and other thing and the other thing it would cost as much as my car. My new car. My new imported car.

    So no, I won’t be getting a Red anything, but I’m sure I’ll enjoy the wonderful work created by those that do.

    2. Agreed! Why are we even comparing VDSLRs and the Scarlet again? Apples / Oranges. Both can make films but only if you get away from your computer long enough to make one.

  67. But what will happen to the red one? The way I se it the scarlet s35 has a bigger sensor, is smaller, half the price and better codec and framerates.

    Have I missed something or is the red one still better than scarlet s35?

  69. I mean I don’t see why there’s this belief that this DSLRs can’t be used for proper theater viewing. Aliasing is a digital thing, once its transferred and printed to film it’s not a problem anymore. As far as RED goes… meh call me when its actually out.

  70. Perhaps the vDSLR world of Canon Nikon Sony etc will be more affordable and established by the time Red’s media hyped approach actually delivers sthg that filmmakers can use, enjoy and feel the company is delivering genuine news about its products etc…
    BIP.

    1. The cool thing about the 7D is that you don’t need an adapter to get the DOP that we all want, but of course this is more for web shooting. Now if i’m going to spend the money on an EX1 or EX3, I would just go buy the scarlet (RED) the bottom line is that video will always be video, for me if I’m shooting for the web I am happy with the 7D, now if I want to do more than that.. then I would get the Scarlet because the DOP, now if you shooting not for the film style then yes I will stick with a video camera.

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