The Great Zacuto Shootout: DSLRs Vs 35mm FILM!!

At the end of January I went to Chicago to be co-DP on the great Zacuto shoot. DSLRs vs Kodak and Fuji Film. It was a hell of an experience and as someone who has been advocating the use of DSLRs for video I was about to find out whether I was right it backing these.

It’s been an epic shoot, in numerous locations over a period of weeks and has a huge number of very well know people in the industry giving their opinions. Rick McCallum, Shane Hurlbut ASC, Kevin Shaninian, Stephen Goldblatt ASC and many many more.

I just watched Part 1 and it’s great. A lot of people were concerned there was going to be a bias towards DSLRs and we were doing this to show that film is dead. Far from it. Every one of is, especially the ones like me who have never shot 35mm, respect and love film. After all I have been desperately trying to emulate that “film look” all my career on video. These Canon DSLRs have really been “game changers” for me. I love what they do, am totally aware of their limitations and simply work around them. Every single camera has limitations. The DSLRs are no exception.

Bob Primes, ASC, devised the main tests whilst I was in charge of getting the best out of the DSLRs and I also ran the low light test which is coming in episode 3. For those who are interested I discussed at length with Tim Smith of Canon about the best picture profiles for the cameras. We settled on in camera settings, many will argue that we should have gone “superflat”, and I am sure it would have been great but in the end what we went for was sharpness all the way dowb, Contrast all the way down and Saturation down two notches. The reason we turn sharpness all the way down is simply the camera is too sharp and it also accentuates the`flaws of the camera. It’s very easy to bring back a little bit of sharpness in post. That is my recommendation.With the flat PP I was able to get about 2 stops more latitude in these cameras.

GH1 settings were smooth, contrast down 2, sharpness down 2. Noise reduction zero.

With the ISO we did some noise tests on the different ISO and found that on the Canons 160, 320, 640, 1250, 2500 were the most noise free. Interesting and surprising as I had always thought 100,200 etc were the native ISOs.  To get these you need to go into ISO expansion in the register new settings and make the ISO increments 1/3. Interesting the Rebel T2i only has 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400. I have not done a noise test on this camera so I cannot say. All I can say is the best we could get image noise free was using the 160 etc…

Now the Zeiss lenses were not the expensive ones. We used the ZF series meaning it is easy to match the colours across the range of digital cameras.

I want to explain why we chose these “DSLRs” are not others. Simply to qualify it needed to be 24p ideally but most key was the ability to get full manual control. No full manual control and the camera was binned from the test. This is also a DSLR v 35mm film test. No RED camera as that is neither. Also if we went down RED route we would have to use all the others out there. Even with the cameras we had it was an enormous task. With every camera out there commercially it would have been a year long endeavour!

What did you think of the tests so far? What was you favourite. Let me know in your comments below. I would love to hear them!

I was fortunate enough to see my work projected on the Stag Screen back in December and knew then that these cameras were something truly special. Seeing them put up against film was always going to be worrying and of course film looked fantastic but look at just how good the Canons looked…we are getting there for sure!

There is much more to come in the tests. Just to be clear though, we did not do tests on the very known flaws of rolling shutter, aliasing and moire. We all know this is a big pain with DSLRs and of course does not exist in film, but then again every camera I have ever used has its flaws. We simply focused on latitude, resolution and sensitivity.

Also…please check out these fab photos by the very talented Sara Collaton.

 

166 comments

    1. i have never seen such an elaborate excuse for a bunch of middle-aged white guys to hang out with half-naked asian girls. jokes aside, what an amazingly useful piece. thank you.

  1. Philip,

    is it possible for you to program the pics so when I’m clicking on the thumbnail and it enlarges in a separate window that I can click directly to the next image without going back to your blog post and then have to click on each thumbnail in order to view the pics enlarged? It would be much more viewer friendly.

    Hope my english makes sense.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. Hey Phil,

    Super psyched, do you know when it will be up? I have been refreshing the zacuto site so many times reading the comments for clues. Pretty lame I know when I already know who won.

  3. Wow! Am I the 1st video nut to get up today? I could barely sleep waiting to find out who actually drew first blood in that three-man shootout! Oh, and to smear the results (should they favor my expectations) all over my skeptical colleagues’ faces!

  4. From Zacuto website :
    [ SHOOTOUT UPDATES ] We know everyone is anxious to see the first webisode of the Great Camera Shootout 2010. Our amazing Zacuto Editors and production teams have been working around the clock to bring this to you, and we will be releasing it at 2pm CST today! ~ Get ready for some Action!

  5. Looks like zacuto.com wasn’t prepared for the # of hits to the site today. Can’t even access the main page let alone the video link! Should have posted it to Vimeo! Hehe 🙂

  6. btw – you can use this plugin:
    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/fancybox-for-wordpress/
    to make your gallery more easier to browse

    and in the shortcode for the wp photo gallery, between the brackets you can put :
    columns=”4″
    so the end code will look like
    [gallery columns="4" link="file" orderby="title"]
    now you have 2 columns and much more scroll to torture your readers…

    Hope this was helpful to improve your blog.

    PS: I’m going right away to see the movie at Zacuto 🙂

  7. Can someone who is able to access the website, tell me what their new IP address is – the DNS records haven’t reached Australia yet – and it looks like their IT department thought it would be fun to change service providers when they published this video… Grrr

  8. See,

    I ‘asked’ @Zacuto to release it on March 25th. My birthday.
    And I am AMAZED! It is actually March 25th and they told me via Twitter it will be released on my birthday. Early in the morning! How cool is that!

    (Not that I had anything to do with it. The darn server blew up because Steve started shooting again…)

    😉

    Good luck people! It’s almost 2AM and I’m going to bed. Hoping the video will be on-line for everyone as I wakeup.

    Gert

  9. Philip, you’ve made a great contribution to these test and there is no doubt your results are impressive. However, everyone’s interpretation of the results in the video raises more questions. If the goal was to demonstrate the highest latitude (i.e. hold detail in the whites) a picture style file with a very high gamma curve could have been created and the ISO could then be set low enough to hold enough detail in the whites(i.e. the light bulb) while still holding the shadows. This would likely yield much more latitude with the sacrifice of added noise in the blacks. At that point you would be comparing how noisy the different formats are at producing a 13 stop filmic latitude. How did you decide how much or little gain to add with the curve tool?

    Can you talk a little about the luma curve you used in these tests. Did you use the same settings as you’ve used in the past. I think it was Neutral(with the contrast all the way down)?

  10. Great stuff, got to see it at 3am. Can’t wait for part 2, would have been good to see EX1 included as well. Kodak is superb, 5D holds up well and 7D is good if erratic. When will you be reviewing the new Zacuto gear?

  11. That was great. Can’t wait for the next bit. Any chance of it coming to Converge 2 for a screening?

    Skywalker Ranch looked really great even scaled up to full screen on my monitor – even bits that normally don’t encode well like the mist. Just shows how good the original was.

  12. Hey Phil quick question, have you done a post yet on how you setup your 5d/7d picture profiles and how that translates to color grading.

    I’ve been experimenting a little with those Flat picture profiles, but by the time they are graded to at least look like the “standard” picture profile they start to fall apart a little?

  13. Great work at the shoot out. Also good to meet you at sxsw, I was shooting next to you at Maggie May’s when she was doing a live performance.

    Question, what settings did you have the 7d and 550d set at. I am lookng for a setting to do my testing with. Looks like what you set the 7d at kicked but. Would you share? Or if the setting is in the 7d academy I can just get the DVD. Thanks for your work!

    Jay

  14. Job well done Phil, I applaude your contribution. I wish you’d put the piece on Youtube in another week so you could get the well-deserved hitcounter rocking…

    When considering the additional expense of prime Zeiss lenses in such a test,
    how do you think the Sony EX1R would fair in these tests?

  15. The female Zacuto models are just so awesome. 😉 So far after round 1 of the tests, I’m happy I have a 5D Mark II. Curious to see the T2i even though I know it will pretty much look like the 7D.

  16. Makes me wonder whether you’d get anything more out of a RAW still – just to see how much loss of overhead is (or is not) actually coming from the codec.

    Also makes me wonder how the RED might have gone, as well.

  17. 1st of all this shootout is awesome. Really can’t believe how well the DSLRs stand up. I knew they were awesome but this was amazing.

    Honest opinion about the video… I could done with less of Steve and Jens in the “brick room” and a more cohesive and comprehensive edit of the commentary by the Pro’s in the screening rooms.

  18. Loved it! I was very happy with the tests (as a proud 7D owner) and so pleased that many agreed that hd-dslrs hold their own in many (of course not all) areas compared to film. And considering the price of these very capable dslrs – this is truly a revolution!

    I am grateful for the creative power hd-dslrs give to the individual with a limited budget – the ability to create and experiment and learn…very exciting.

  19. I love that Zacuto went out their way to do this but isn’t the 800LB gorilla in the room the exclusion of IMAX? I mean IMAX is the pinnacle of film shooting and provides the highest image quality out there. We’re talking nine times the size of 35mm film with numbers like 10,000×7,000 pixel count. Of course the cameras are extremely expensive (About 300K for five day rentals) and I can see cost being a reason for it to not be included in the test, but let’s not forget about it. Especially when you consider IMAX is working on their Digital camera for late this year-early next year release.

    Another thing, this test highlighted something I’ve noticed myself from personal usage, which is how great the D3S is in low light. I mean Nikon really takes it to Canon on the sensor front (Some claim that’s due to SONY’s help on the back end, but whatever). You just can’t hope but imagine how spectacular the D3s would be in Full 1080p with at least H264 codec, let alone RAW.

    1. wait until ep 3 for low light tests.

      I think shooting on IMAX would have been over the top, as would 70mm and 65mm. We needed a benchmark and 35mm film is the look we are all trying to attain.

  20. Freakin sweet program!!! Can´t wait for the next episode, congrats on such a good show. Phil were the color profiles you used the ones you teach in your DVD? And did you ever use Highlight Priority?

      1. Do you think the Canons would have done any better with the lightbulb filament and other highlight detail shortcomings (bricks, test chart) with highlight tone priority switched on? Or is that even what HTP does for the image? After seeing that filament so clearly on the film examples I can see why some film makers are still ga-ga over film and won’t use anything but it.

        Great program in any case. I watched the flash movie full screen on my 46″ HDTV and it was terrific.

  21. Amazing! Good to see the 5D latitude is holding up so well.
    A lot better than the 1D I think, Yeah it can see somewhat in the dark but now full sensor! Blah!

    Thanks Phil cant wait to see the rest.

  22. It took 5-7 years for dSLR’s to meet film photographic standards and this will be only the second year of HD video ability in dSLRs. Ooodles of goodness to come in image and ergonomics as its early days. Wonder how these full frame sensors could be used in a film friendly body…

    Thx to all for taking time and care to do this right. v v significant.

  23. Hi Phil,

    great, that´s the ultimate test I´ve been waiting for.

    Could you please shed a little light on the picture profile you used on the 5d?
    There are so many “flat” profiles around, would be great to know what you use.

    Thanks and congratulations to the outstanding work
    Holger

  24. That was an awesome first episode, cannot wait to see the rest! A little question, did you keep the shutter of the HDSLR’s at 180 all the time?

      1. How do you keep the 180 degree rule when its 24p on the 5D II? They did not include 1/48th shutter in the firmware update. Am I missing something?
        Other than that: What a great shootout! So happy the net allows us to witness this. Bloom, you are the king of the web!

  25. A big thank you to you and all of the participants of the test – this is good for DSLRs and good for the industry as a whole.

    I also want to say that Sara’s pictures are excellent!! The pic of you pointing the gun @ Steve is beyond classic… 😉

  26. Great tests and wonderful to see all the cameras doing well.

    Quick question – what settings did you use for the GH1.

    There was some chat about not being able to change the profile on the GH1 in the same way. Could you elaborate?

  27. Great job! I’m excited to see episodes 2 and 3.
    I love how the Fuji stock handles the lightbulb in the low key/lightbulb scene. Although the 5D and 7D lose detail in the bulb I think I almost prefer that to the red halo that the Kodak stock produced. As for the D3s and GH1… yuck. I didn’t like what they were doing in that scene once the lightbulb came on, at all.

    People have been trying to imitate film with video for a long time, it’s great to see these tests where the two formats can actually be compared! But who ever thought it would be still cameras that would get us there!? It’s a very interesting time that we live and work in.

    When will the next episode be uploaded? I want to see more!

  28. I`m thrilled and exited.. looking forward to see more! Thats it! It gave me a smile to see a scientific test with such a passionate and theatrical approach! Great work so far and thank all of you for that scientific “fucking, love what i do” art!

  29. is there anywhere that tells the best picture setting (for grading) for the 5D, 7D and 550D (t2i)? I see phil mentions it, but doesn’t go into as much details as this noob needs.

    everyone seems to have a different opinion.

  30. Your video at the end of episode one was amazing! You are the master. What camera did you use?

    I also read your article about the 5D vs the 7D. I would like to purchase a DSLR for HD video purposes but I’m having a hard time deciding. I like the features of the 7D but I want the overall quality of the 5D. Does the new 5D firmware upgrade the video features (frame rate, ISO, shutter angle, Iris)?

    Thanks.
    ZAP

  31. @ Marden

    Vertical banding it’s very same problem i’m experiencing! Problem is i don’t see all that banding in movies shot by other people (Philip included) and that really drives me crazy! It’s really unpredictable and is very visible on dark and same-coloured areas.. it is the same problem you have? Any tips to avoid or reduce that?

    Thank you!

  32. Hey Phil – another excellent job.

    Regarding the T2i versus 7D issue, I know the T2i was only included in some of the Zacuto tests but from what you did manage to see of the T2i would you say in its video performance it is just as good as the 7D or are there situations when the 7D created “better” video than its baby brother the T2i?

  33. Awesome stuff I love hear you guys talk about it, I’m surprised how well the 5D and 7D hold up in the shadows. yes highlights are a little hot but the lack of noise in the blacks is extremely impressive.

    Now I think the EX1 would have been fun to see as well but what really needs demoed is RED. Did they not agree to the test? I would love to see film vs RED vs 5D/7D.

  34. Hi Phil,
    Congrats to you and the Zacuto team on a really great episode! Very well done and informative without getting too geeky.

    I just have a question: I don’t really understand the logic behind not using a “superflat” picture style. You said: “We talked about the downloadable “Superflat” but both agreed that the simple in camera picture profile that you can construct in the menus would be perfect for what we were after” But it was also stated in the video that you were there to get the maximum results each camera could offer- hence why you were creating the picture styles in the first place no?

    So why do the test with the built in settings? The EOS curve editor can get a much more filmic response than what the camera can adjust internally.

    That said, the 5D footage looked great and obviously held up quite well to film, but just wondering now how it might have been different with a better curve loaded on the 5D or 7d.

    Thanks for all your work,
    Congrats!

    Dan Rubottom

    1. Dan has a point…I was wondering the same this. My testing shows a much better response in achieving more dynamic range if you alter the picture style settings to a different gamma curve.

      Philip, you feel that the in-camera neutral profile is better? Can you explain why? In my own tests I see so much detail in shadows and highlights after I created a superflat picture style, so I’m having trouble understanding why this wouldn’t be better?

  35. Hey Philip, I see lots of people asking various questions about the different test specifications – do you know if Zacuto is planning on releasing a whitepaper or detailed article on the test environment, parameters for cameras, etc?

  36. Great video – I love watching a camera that I own stand up to 35mm in a very comparable way! Also, you mentioned 160 ISO as a good noise-free setting, but to get it you need to turn highlight priority off.

    This brings up the question – when is it best to utilize highlight tone priority?

  37. Interesting that the best ISOs were listed as 1/3 stop less than whole ISOs. I thought the 5d was natively whole stop ISOs (100,200, etc), and that the tests at 160 would then be shot at 200 camera native and the camera darkened to 160. That means the ISO at 160 would appear have less noise (it shot at 200, and because it was digitally darkened the noise is reduced). That would also cause the highlights to be more blown out, possibly resulting in a lower dynamic range (maybe losing more highlight detail). At ISO 250 you may have more noise, but possibly more dynamic range (since it shoots at 200 and digital up to 250, and the highlights are really the problem).

  38. Hello Mr Bloom,

    I came across this on cinema5d, and you probably have too, but do you know if it is true? If it is true, why continue to shoot at the “artificial pull-down” ISOs if they give less noise, but at the same time, less dynamic range?

    “ISO 100 = ISO 100
    ISO 125 = ISO 100 + digital push –> more noise
    ISO 160 = ISO 200 – digital pull –> less noise, less dynamic range
    ISO 200 = ISO 200
    ISO 250 = ISO 200 + digital push –> more noise
    ISO 320 = ISO 400 – digital pull –> less noise, less dynamic range
    ISO 400 = ISO 400
    and so on

    The 5D II supports only ISO (100?),200,400,800,1600,3200 native. All other sensitivities are created in post-processing.”

      1. Yes, they come up cleaner because the noise is pulled down from its native appearance. But that also results in less dynamic range! In the bathtub scene the 5d II was set to ISO 160. If it were set to a native ISO like 100 the latitude preformance would have been even closer to the filmstocks. With a little more noise/grain. But if you look closely the filmstocks appear a tiny bit grainier. So shooting whith a native ISO on the DSLRs would have been the best choice. Filmlike grain and more latitude. Better results.

      1. I believe the native ISO rates of the 5D MK II’s sensor are the full ISO settings like 100, 200, 400 etc. The next 1/3rd up (like 125 or 250) artificially/digitally increases gain, thus making the picture a little brighter but adding noise. A 1/3rd down from these native ISO settings (like 160 or 320) only reduce the grain/noise that is naturally there like the grain you would find on film. Look here: http://www.canonphotogroup.com/showthread.php?t=2541

  39. Great episode, really well made and congrats to all involved!

    I feel one thing is missing.

    Any chance for samples of the actual raw test footage to be made available for download so we can playback the results on our TVs? Computer screens and streaming video sucks for quality.

  40. Hey that was really entertainin’. I would like to know which Picture Styles you used for the Canons. What is the way to go ? Neutral, Marvel, or Superflat ? There is a little bit of confusion at C5D.
    All the best…

  41. Amazing work Phil!!!

    Is it just me or the 7D looked the most filmic compared to the stocks?

    The 5D looked better in low light due to the sensitivity but it wasn’t as close to the film stock as the 7D was. The bathtub scene also showed the 7D in closest to detail. Very interesting results.

    Ep 2 and 3 will be jaw dropping I bet!

  42. I have trouble believing that the 5D yields fewer stops than the 7D or the 1Ds. Looking at the 5D chart picture, it looked more contrasty than the 7D/1D, like the wrong picture style was picked for the specific test. I don’t know… maybe I’m wrong. 😉

    1. This is what I think, too. From my real world experience I find that the 5D mk II has at least the same amount of latitude – if not more- than the 7D. I think this is due to the ISO settings they used in the test. I believe the native ISO rates of the 5D MK II’s sensor are the full ISO settings like 100, 200, 400 etc. The next 1/3rd up (like 125 or 250) artificially/digitally increases gain, thus making the picture a little brighter but adding noise. A 1/3rd down from these native ISO settings (like 160 or 320) only reduce the grain/noise that is naturally there like the grain you would find on film. By digitally reducing this grain the latitude or dynamic range gets influenced. I think the best latitude is achieved by sticking to the native ISO settings wich I think are 100, 200, 400, 800, and I am not sure about 1600. Yuo will get a tiny bit more grain but I think that is OK because it is the grain that is naturally/natively there. Please correct me if you think I am wrong. Here is a nice test http://www.canonphotogroup.com/showthread.php?t=2541.

  43. Since NCIS-LA is using a Nikon D3s for low light stuff – why was this camera not included. Sort of invalidates the results if you bias this toward Canon. Could one’s personal bias have slipped into this. Shame on you guys

  44. hi phil, great test. good job. i just wanted to ask if the 5d rated at 160ASA would be better than 100ASA. i know that sounds like a stupid question but this test seems to be throwing up a few surprises and your tests might have shown 160 was better than 100.
    cheers

  45. Wow, great show !
    It’s amazing how DSLRs stand close to 35mm. I feel excited after this first video … really want to see the other two !

    Just a question by the way about the Zeiss lenses. You mentioned ZF series that are designed for … Nikon. Is this a mistake (ZE series instead) or did you use adapters on Canon bodies ?

  46. Fascinating. I love the way you guys push and test and prove and share. Film making is a passion! Just one suggestion: try a pola filter on the bath scene, it would remove that annoying reflection on the water. (Only kidding! Calm down.)

    The key result for me is that the 5d compares well to film, but needs a little bit more love in the lighting. Interestingly, it can still be economical to shoot on film so you can save on lighting time.

    I’ve had some amazing hours in telecine suites marveling at the depth of colour in a 35mm film negative, the dynamic range and the sheer beauty of it. But we move on… I can’t wait to see what the DSLRs will be able to deliver with RAW.

    Looking forward to episode two, if the website can handle the traffic!

  47. I just watched the first shootout video and loved it. Thanks for the visual information. It simply reiterates that while digital is an exciting medium to work in film still has it’s place as each unique brush does in a painters toolbox. I can’t wait to see the next video.

    Cheers, Richard

  48. I was very impressed with the way the DSLR cameras held up not only against film, but also while being viewed on big screens. Film clearly has the most range between the blacks and whites of course. Film simply can stand up to the most harsh lighting conditions & setups, but to my surprise, the DSLR’s performed like a champ. My favorite test was the flame and light bulb test. I found the detail difference in the way the light bulb looked from camera to camera to be very interesting. The light bulb looked amazing on the fuji film. Kinda neat how the Kodak film gave the light bulb a red color halo around it. The 5D was great in low light. 7D looked really clear in the bathroom shot when compared to the 5D. Across the board, the DSLR’s come pretty damn close to Film. Its not there yet, but its catchin up to it.

  49. Wow.. Incredible. An exiting time for independent cinema!

    I just want to thank you for all the hard work! Those tests seemed extremely well designed and conducted. Really eye opening.

    Thanks again Mr Bloom! [et. all involved in the shootout]

  50. Can u please tell me if you are able to see a difference between shooting at 24p and 25p/Pal?

    I know that u say that 24p is the closest to that film look, but is there really a perceptible difference between the two?

  51. Well, like the shootout. very nice. Can’t wait to see the other two Episodes.

    One thing, thou. The GH1 looks like not set right compared to the others. What settings were used? Is sharpness all the way down? TheImage looks like it wasn’t. There is this nasty digital sharpness to it that appears when the sharpness is not set as low as possible.

    Some Info about the Settings of the GH1 would be nice.

    Anyhow, can’t wait to see the other Episodes, but it looks like finally, the 5D is on top again as it now features 24p. One thing that made me buy the GH1.

    Now we need to wait if the GH2 will be better or if I switch to Canon finally with the next buy…

  52. MEXICAN STANDOFF

    Took over 24 hours of buffering on my connection here in Bangkok, Thailand to view the first part of the shootout, but more than worth it. Many thanks to the Zacuto team and the other industry pros for their time.

    I think what’s key with the HD-DSLR revolution (and significant to anyone about to buy a DSLR, like myself) is the point that Philip Bloom makes: that DSLRs that excel in one area struggle in others. Suffice to say that after 35 mm got off on his horse and rode off with the gold, the first round has ended in a bit of a Mexican standoff amongst the digital cameras, with their various strengths and weaknesses.

    Once these very helpful tests are complete though, the actual, real utility of these DSLRs (which gun you choose) will depend on mastering known limitations and employing workarounds to achieve the desired shot/look.

    I look forward to the community picking up on this and contributing in a similar way to Zacuto so that everyone can be armed appropriately.

  53. Hi Mr. Bloom,

    Curious to know if (in the next 2 episodes), you guys get into:

    1) Problems with Color Correction (or maybe the lack of problems) using the 8-bit H.264 files.

    I assume you guys must have transcoded into a different codec–probably ProRes or something 4:2:2 / 10-bit. But how was the film treated? Was it scanned to DPX off the negative or telecined to another format? What color space were you guys coloring in to grade everything? I’m guessing Rec 709.

    And for projection, how were these shown? Filmout-to-35mm print or high end Christie Projector or something else? If digital projection, what color space–RGB, or DCI?

    2) Show the real world problems with aliasing because of the line skipping–on test charts or with certain patterns. Maybe you guys show how to compensate for this.

    It would be great to know these specifics for those of us that want to apply these tests to real world shooting.

    Thanks!

    SML

  54. HI Guys.

    OK. Nice test, but you forget everytime the ONE main THING:

    You got only around 40 MB/sec. with the Canon. Film/RED or others will really get MUCH MUCH MORE…

    With this rate you´re definitely NOT able to go to cinema…

    BTW the BBC likes to get 50 MB MINIMUM!!! For primetime 100…

    So, don´t play so long…be serious!!

    In that case the RED ONE is the one and only toy at the moment…

    Regards

    Alex

    1. obsession with numbers is foolish. first off if you want to discuss numbers the 7d and 1dmkiv get around 54mbs. secondly who cares! i have seen this stuff on the big screen and it damn well holds up. if it didn’t i would have been doing what I have been doing the past week for Lucasfilm…

  55. Dear Philip.

    You will tell me that there will be no visible artifacts?

    Come on…be serious!

    Please blow up a shot of a blue sky and have a look on the blocking at the plain areas.

    Hmmm…I always see artefacts under 100mbs. And believe me: It cares!!!

    Cheers

    Alex

    1. have you seen it on the big screen Alex? have you? well i have. 44 foot screen in best theatre in the world, watched by some of the greatest names in the movie business. They were dumbstruck.

      Sure higher bit rate is great, but don’t obsess over it. Life is too short. bit rate is not going to give you a great film is it? I honestly thought the bit rate debate was being left behind, why discuss something we already know would be great to be improved upon?

      once you have seen 5d/7d/1d stuff on a 2k projector on a massive screen then please get back to me. Lucasfilm and I are currently negotiating with Barco to get some projectors going at NAB with my stuff on them.

      P

      1. Phil – loved the film! Your choice of Holst was perfect for Skywalker – I always felt that’s where Williams got his influence.

        As to bitrates and big screens – any chance of getting a download of the film in a “nice” codec/bitrate in order to play on the HDTV and/or home theater screen? That way we could get an approximation of what you saw at the Ranch!

      2. Awesome Phil, keep us updated! would love to see your stuff on the big screen @NAB !

        Great test btw – looking forward to more… although kind of wish I could download a 720 / 1080p file of the full episode.

        Take it easy and get some sleep you busy man!

        cheers

  56. Good stuff Phil! There is so much confusion on forums about which ISOs are native. After reading this posting I went out and shot at 160 and I definately notice less grain. Did you conclude that 160 was native based on the waveform tests or is it perhaps that it is not native but still performs the best? Looking forward to the next episodes.

    1. its one of those things you cant win on. we went with the waveform tests and bob primes, asc and i agreed to go with the least noise. would there be an increase in latitude? no idea?

  57. First, I have to thank everyone involved for their work and time spent in doing this comparison. Great interest must be rising in seeing what these new cameras can do. Some big guys must be really interested in this or else we wouldn’t see this huge production and so many people involved. For me the big thing is that, YES YOU CAN achieve the “film look” and for such an affordable price. Of course film is better and 75mm even better and IMAX even better but that is not the issue here and people should be aware of this. In my work, as I posted several times before, I’ve used 35mm film and ALL the video formats ( yes including RED ) and when it comes to video formats, I NEVER been so happy and pleased with the footage as with these cameras and I think that’s the ultimate goal when working with video. What camera is better, looks nicer or comes near what you guys expect, it’s a matter of taste ( and of wich camera you own ). Great work.

  58. It’s not the size of your lens, it’s how and what you shoot with it! When can we expect the next episode! I’m interested in the Canon T2i, plan on purchasing next month!

  59. Phil,
    This is awesome! Will you always shoot with sharpness and contrast all the down from now on? Is that what works best for 2k projection, or was it just for the purposes of the test?
    Thanks.

  60. Yo Philip,

    Excellent work. While the test results are not that surprising, I really do appreciate the amount of work and detail to put all this together by all involved. Cheers

  61. great tests; but if industry experts are having trouble coming up with harsh criticisms for Dslrs over film, i think the tests are over: Dslrs officially and expertly R-O-C-K!

    Avg lamen viewer will care about big noticeable things like heavy noise, artifacting, banding, lack of sharp focus, etc. If Dslrs can compare in those regards…wow.

    As for CC’ing, how much can you push/pull the little digicams and their compressed codecs in edit suite [another chapter to follow]? Film can of course look completely different after Color Correction. Mr. B, what has your experience been in terms of How Far you can change the look in Magic Bullet, Color, etc.?

    P.S., can’t conclude without saying that this website remains a source of inspiration that I visit every day. Thanks for all your tireless work Philip.

  62. Hey Philip I am unsure if I should be shooting my footage with the “auto lighting optimizer” *on* or *off*. Canon says it’s cool. I’m gonna test it today. I’d like to know what you think. I’ll let you know what I think!

  63. There is an weird lack of G1 references here.
    Irony is the “fix” wasn’t in for the shootout. Not on purpose of course!

    Now that the “fix” is in and the GH1 goes for around 1000.00
    there a lot of clammer going on…

    I own the 5D Mark II- love it, yet Im the first to say its color rendition leaves me a little flat. Its greens and blues are num, ruddy a little lifeless…

    I have seen many GHI clips before and now after the “Fix” and I liked its greens and blues. Now they even look better! The word is maybe 4:2:2 is possible, which is much nicer than 4:2:0 period!

    Every cam has its ups and downs…meantime Im checking in on a G1 to add to my 5d. Im by passing the 7d…

    These are interesting times for video/digital production.

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